Re: Latest on Evolution

by **Bill** Thu May 11, 2023 10:57 pm

You have been given much empirical evidence to support evolution but reject it on the grounds it was offered by people who accept evolution as good science. That is not having enough faith to accept the evidence, it is an extreme example of blocking one's ear so as not to hear something you would rather not hear.

The genomes of different species have common features. It takes a great deal of fanaticism to dismiss such similarities as coincidence. Europeans have about 4% Neanderthal DNA in their genomes. Australian aborigines about 2% and bushmen from deep South Africa none at all. The evangelical explanation for this? God moves in mysterious ways? The scientific explanation? As tribes migrated out of Africa to populate the rest of the globe. migrants spent different amounts of time in contact with Neanderthals and the result is different degrees of cross breeding.

But that explanation just has to be denied by the fanatic. else one may be forced to accept linguistics rather than the fable of the Tower of Babylon.

by chapabel Thu May 11, 2023 11:47 pm

Oh no, I accept there is Neanderthal dna found in humans as a result of interbreeding. But the offspring are not crocodiles, hummingbirds or snakes. We are still humans. This is not evolution. Again, this is a result of breeding.

And you have not offered anything in the way of evidence for evolution. All you have presented is the opinion of evolutionists. Just because you quote someone who says evolution must be true does not it is so. There is no science at all in evolution. Just a fairy tale told by religious zealots.

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 12:02 am

It is scripture that is a fairy tale told by religious zealots. Please invent your own insults and not simply plagiarize existing ones.

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 12:25 am

Hey, if the insult fits…

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 12:53 am

Yeah - I guess your sort become connoisseurs of insults after a time. I bet you think that primordial soup was a dish supped by ancient cave men: if your dogma allows for them to have ever existed. May be they were friends of Adam and Eve after getting chucked out of Eden: didn't they invent sex to god's utter chagrin. If so - good for them!

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 1:05 am

Oh yeah, the primordial soup that your religion teaches we all sprang from. You do have evidence that this soup really existed, right? I’d love to see it. In fact I’d be pleased to see any proof that evolution is anything but a fairy tale. I keep asking and you keep dodging. I won’t be holding my breath waiting

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 1:17 am

Every time evidence is produced it is rejected on the grounds that it is being put forward by persons who believe in the idea of evolution.

Which is on par with me demanding that support for scripture is only valid when offered by atheists. Show me an atheist who accepts the fable of the Tower of Babel as historically factual and we may then actually get to move on to new ground.

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 1:24 am

But no evidence has been presented. All you give is opinions. You have yet to offer scientific evidence of humans evolving from another animal. You cannot point me to scientific evidence that alligators evolved from fish. Fossils are just evidence that a creature once existed but not that it evolved into something else. Where is the ironclad evidence that birds were once dinosaurs? See? You cannot offer any evidence because none exists. And yet, you believe.

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 1:36 am

When an evangelical conservative is told "the forelimbs of whales, humans, birds, and dogs look pretty different on the outside. That's because they're adapted to function in different environments. However, if you look at the bone structure of the forelimbs, you'll find that the pattern of bones is very similar across species. It's unlikely that such similar structures would have evolved independently in each species, and more likely that the basic layout of bones was already present in a common ancestor of whales, humans, dogs, and bird" The case is rejected on the grounds it came from the Khan Academy and not holy scripture.

That the only source of scripture's truth is scripture itself is quite acceptable. Anything that challenges scripture is therefore invalid.

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 2:33 am

That’s your evidence? The bones are similar? To believe the reason is because we all came from a common ancestor is quite a leap of faith. More faith than what I possess. But again, this isn’t evidence of evolution. It’s a theory; a guess; a hunch. A far cry from real evidence.

As far as the Bible is concerned there is historical and archaeological evidence that supports the validity of Holy Writ. Much more evidence for the Bible than for evolution.

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 4:37 pm

So it is all coincidence, or God moving in mysterious ways? Which do you plump for?

The historical and archeological evidence that supports the validity of scripture is on par with showing the Victorian London detailed in Sherlock Holmes novels validates the existence of that fictional detective.

Still, if there was historical and archaeological evidence for the Tower of Babel your case would be more than idle hypothesis.

by alka Fri May 12, 2023 8:20 pm

chapabel wrote:The true story of Creation:
Genesis 1:1-31 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis is a poem it never was intended to be taken literally it was made up to let people know God is the Creator and science shown how God created every thing

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 9:49 pm

Believing in the Tower of Babel is easier to digest than humans evolving from tadpoles. Perhaps you can find experts who specialize in local ghost tours to support your position. Hahaha….

by chapabel Fri May 12, 2023 9:53 pm

alka wrote:
chapabel wrote:The true story of Creation:
Genesis 1:1-31 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis is a poem it never was intended to be taken literally it was made up to let people know God is the Creator and science shown how God created every thing

Sorry but you are totally wrong. Genesis is not written in Hebrew poetry. The books of Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon are all considered poetry. But thanks for your input.

by **Bill** Fri May 12, 2023 11:31 pm

The underlying concept of the Tower tells us a lot about those ancient scribes. The idea was to build a tower so tall you could stand on the top of it and peer into heaven. God was so afraid they might succeed he had to confound the plan.

wow

Now who has the right to cut and paste a long string of repeated "ha"?

Scripture as a source of metaphor and poetic image has some utility. As a scientific discourse on the history of the universe it leaves a lot to be desired. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

by chapabel Sat May 13, 2023 1:37 am

The issue with the Tower of Babel is the same issue men face today. It’s mankind trying to get to God by his own works. Rather than acknowledge how sinful and depraved he is, man is trying to get into Heaven by his own works. The only way into Heaven is through Jesus Christ. Every other way is doomed to confusion and failure; just like the Tower of Babel. People dying and going to Hell is no laughing matter, my friend.

by **Bill** Sat May 13, 2023 3:49 pm

So it is your case that a tall enough tower would give someone the ability to peep into heaven?

wow

by chapabel Sun May 14, 2023 1:53 pm

Really? That is a very foolish question to ask.

by **Bill** Sun May 14, 2023 4:26 pm

When you debate issues of a general nature you offer reasonably cogent arguments. When defending the indefensible you can get very silly. I was simply holding a magnifying glass to how silly your current stance has become.

by chapabel Sun May 14, 2023 6:52 pm

It wasn’t my position that anyone could build a tower to peep into Heaven. That was foolish of you to suggest that. It was the belief, however, of those who built the Tower of Babel. Just as it is the belief today that people can work their way through the Pearly Gates. Today people believe going to church, helping the poor, and just being a good person will get them into Heaven.

by **Bill** Sun May 14, 2023 7:02 pm

A serious attempt at enlightenment: if it was not possible to build a tower to meet those objectives, why was it necessary to go to such extreme lengths to thwart them?

by chapabel Sun May 14, 2023 7:17 pm

Because their efforts were to glorify themselves, and not God. That is the motivation for people trying to work their way into Heaven today.

by **Bill** Sun May 14, 2023 7:30 pm

So gave them foreign languages? Really? You seem to be on your defending the indefensible track again.

by chapabel Sun May 14, 2023 8:57 pm

I don’t have to defend anything. I’m just showing you the similarities between the people building the tower and folks today. Truth doesn’t need to be defended.

by **Bill** Sun May 14, 2023 9:02 pm

You seem to be avoiding the main issue: the Tower of Babel is cited as the origin of foreign languages: not that surprising since it was scribed well before the science of linguistics was founded. Comparing ancient pride to modern cynicism might give you some satisfaction but ignores completely the real origins of foreign languages.

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