The war against Ukraine

Sure, many people choose to believe in Sasquatch. Some believe in the Loch Ness monster. Many people believe in UFO’s and some claim to have been abducted by aliens. Some people even go so far as to believe abortion is moral. People believe what they choose to believe.

I think you have proven that people who choose to believe things are mentally deranged. That would explain why some evangelicals say that they chose to believe in the faith they adopted. Believing abortion is invariably immoral is also a good sign of someone who is mentally deranged.

No, what I have proven is that people believe what they want to believe, and reject what they don’t like.

What you have proven is that you are intolerant of those who do not think like you.

Believing you have been abducted by aliens is a choice and not a symptom of a deranged mind? A choice? Of a normal mind?

Your rhetoric does go down some very odd worm holes.

We agnostics are very tolerant of the worldviews of others = just need a lot of convincing to take them on as our own. That is not a refusal to chose but a matter of needing persuasive cases to be made.

To be told that refusal to believe in a god is wilful disobedience is listening to rhetoric that has lost all sense of logic.

Tolerant? Hahaha…calling someone you disagree with “mentally deranged” is not tolerant. It is belittling them. It is positioning yourself above them. But that is what people do who are their own gods.

Is it your case that people who claim to have been abducted by aliens are telling a literal truth? Really. I suppose in the world of the evangelical, ridding the language of the term "mentally deranged" might possibly be seen as some sort of defense mechanism.

Recognizing that the condition of being mentally deranged exists does not put you above such people, simply explains their wacky beliefs.

Not every belief is a matter of choice.

Every belief, let me repeat, every belief is a matter of choice. Not every person who claims to be abducted by aliens is mentally deranged. I personally don’t believe they have been abducted, but something has happened to them that has made them choose to believe it did. I don’t believe Bigfoot exists but there are people who do. I don’t consider them mentally unstable or lesser than.

As your own god, you have a tendency to look down on and criticize those who do not hold the same beliefs you hold. Beliefs such as evolution, abortion, and the supremacy of science. You want everything to meet your standard of evidence or it is wrong or does not exist. Basically, you are saying that you are God and you alone give the final stamp of authority on what you have deemed as acceptable.

No, liberals are not at all tolerant of things, thoughts or practices they disagree with. Abortion rights activists have resorted to violence in Wisconsin today. They are disrupting church services, trying to intimidate the justices. Leftists are in a frenzy that Elon Musk bought Twitter so free speech can flourish. Now, liberals in government want a Ministry of Truth so they can control the narrative. No, in reality the “tolerant “ Left are the most intolerant of all people.

chapabel wrote:Every belief, let me repeat, every belief is a matter of choice.

That is simply not true. Which seems to have brought us to a total impasse.

It is true. But because you disagree, as your own god, you say it is untrue and dismiss it. I choose to believe the Bible. I choose to believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior. You choose to believe in evolution. You choose to believe the ideas of man. You choose to believe in science even though science has been wrong in the past. Let me repeat that last…science has been wrong in the past concerning a number of things, but you still choose to believe in science.

I do not choose to believe that the color of grass and the color of tree leaves is so similar as to be considered near identical. I find the evidence of evolution to be persuasive: even evolutionists admit evolution is taking place among germs and viruses. Science is evolutionary in nature and allows for new findings overtake past theories. I am aware that things science considers to be true today might be rejected with new findings of tomorrow. Flexibility is sometimes a strength, not a weakness.

If anyone has the audacity to disagree with you confers godhood on them, that is your choice not theirs.

You find the evidence of evolution to be persuasive, so you choose to believe in evolution. I do not find the evidence to be persuasive, so I choose not to believe in evolution. I see the evidence for God and I choose to believe in God. You ignore the evidence for God and choose not to believe in Him. It is a matter of choice for both of us.

And germs, viruses and bacteria do not evolve, They mutate into different strands, but they remain germs, viruses and bacteria. If they evolved, they would be something else...worms, or birds or elephants.

Do you believe the new variants of Covid are god made? Evolution consists of natural mutation creating new traits. If the new trait is useful the strain is successful, if not the strain dies out. It takes millions of years for completely new organisms to evolve - creation scientists admit that this is probably true, just that the universe is not yet old enough for it to have happened yet.

To verify the evidence of God one is required to read the bible with an open mind and pray to god for guidance. If that is so, only theists are qualified to verify the evidence. The agnostic would be included in the verification process if a persuasive case had been made.

Saying we have not seen germs turn into elephants is such a weak straw man argument that it is not even worthy of rebuttal.

All life comes from God. The following is a definition of evolution from https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-evolution

"What is evolution? In biology, evolution is the change in the characteristics of a species over several generations and relies on the process of natural selection.  The theory of evolution is based on the idea that all species are related and gradually change over time. Evolution relies on there being genetic variation in a population which affects the physical characteristics (phenotype) of an organism. Some of these characteristics may give the individual an advantage over other individuals which they can then pass on to their offspring. " wrote:

All these viruses that have mutated are still viruses and have not changed their physical characteristics or their genetic variation.

Please tell me what creation scientist admit it takes millions of years for new species to evolve. (I have a feeling this is something else you just made up. I could be wrong, but you have to prove me wrong)

Bill wrote:

To verify the evidence of God one is required to read the bible with an open mind and pray to god for guidance.   If that is so, only theists are qualified to verify the evidence.  

Not at all. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. You just refuse to validate the evidence. You don't want to give up your position as your own god.

I quoted you. Are you saying that you were trying to mislead me?

I am capable of being persuaded to alter my worldview and have done so more than once. Just give some evidence worthy of the name.

I am not a creation scientist so you could not have been quoting me.

It is a slight paraphrase but you once said "To verify the evidence of God one is required to read the bible with an open mind and pray to god for guidance."

I never said those words could only come from a creation scientist.

You do seem to enjoy grabbing the wrong end of the stick. Perhaps that is the hallmark of the theist.

I did indeed say read the Bible and pray asking God for guidance. But I wasn't speaking about that. I was asking what creation scientists admit it takes millions of years for new species to evolve.

Since you admit that your worldview can change you reveal the fact that you choose not to believe the Gospel. It is a choice.

The creation scientists don't say it does happen, just that it is a possibility. And they admit they cannot prove conclusively that it is impossible to happen.

My worldview changes because I meet a persuasive case that convinces me my prior opinion was in error. I could be persuaded that there is a god, for example. Being persuaded that Christianity is the one correct religion for that god might be harder to find.

Bill wrote:The creation scientists don't say it does happen, just that it is a possibility.   And they admit they cannot prove conclusively that it is impossible to happen.

Ok, who? Which creation scientists?

The discovery institute, which is manned by young earth creationists.

We have been all through this several times and your ability to forget past discussions is getting very tiresome.

Forgive me if I start ignoring your wilder nonsense.

I'm not forgetting past discussions. You are just making stuff up again, and I'm pointing that out. You cannot name any creation scientists who admit it is probably true that it takes millions of years for new species to evolve.

Just like you cannot cite any reference to your claim that 53% of evangelical Christians want a theocracy.

I didn't say that they said it is probably true just that it was not impossible:  except for the lack of number of years available.

I shall try to dig up that Pew poll.

Again, no names of these scientists, no citations, no references. Just your assertion. Forgive me if I ignore your unverified claims.

Forgive me if I ignore those childish comments